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July 2006 newsletter
Better Business Bureau Correspondence
On May
20, 2006 We received the following letter from Better Business Bureau in
Buffalo, NY:
May 17, 2006
Hydrogen-Boost
12A Sunset Avenue
Queensbury, NY 12804
RE:
Hydrogen-Boost
Dear Sir or Madam:
The Better Business Bureau has recently
received inquiries about you company.
One of the Bureau’s functions is to set standards for ethical
business practices and monitor the marketplace.
Unfortunately, the Bureau has witnessed a
dramatic increase
in victimization of customers by unscrupulous
offers.
Our role in curbing this problem is to
evaluate offers and
Advise consumers whether they meet BBB
standards.
We would appreciate receiving the following
information:
1.
Substansiation of the better gas mileage claims you make on your
web site.
2.
The names, addresses and phone numbers of ten satisfied customers
who have obtained better gas mileage as a result of your product.
While your firm is under no obligation to
provide the above requested material, we are certain you want to
distinguish your firm from unscrupulous companies. Please respond in writing to the issues
raised within two weeks from the date of this letter.
Regretfully, failure to provide the requested
material will result in an Unsatisfactory Business Performance rating for
your company.
Feel free to contact me if you have any
questions.
Sincerely,
Kathleen B. Winter ext 277
Office Manager
My response was as follows:
Hydrogen Boost
12A Sunset Avenue
Queensbury, NY 12804
Tel. 518-793-7663
Better
Business Bureau
741
Delaware Avenue
Buffalo,
NY 14209-2201
Dear
Kathleen Winter,
Thank you for your interest in our
business. We have been in
business since 2001 and have built our business on customer
satisfaction. As you can see from
our web page we offer a 30 day money back satisfaction guarantee on most
of our system. The engine
treatment and wiring kit are excluded from this money back offer unless
they are returned in the original package undamaged, which has been done
on occasion. With over two
hundred customers in the last six years, we have had a total of eleven
returns, one from Bulgaria that was totally destroyed by the postal
system (I have pictures if you’d like to see them) yet we gave a total
refund. Most of the returned
systems were never installed because of either ordering the wrong size or
because the customer decided that installation was beyond his
abilities. Two hydrogen
generators were returned that were tested on diesel engines before we
developed the complete diesel system.
We have never refused a refund.
Some of our competitors have.
I have the list of names and addresses of the
customers who returned the system but I am not sure of their phone
numbers. Doing business on the
Internet is done mostly by email.
Usually I don’t have much contact with customers after they
receive their system unless they have questions about installation.
Here is a list of some customers who have
indeed contacted me with reports of their mileage increases.
Sam
Dabbs, 4717 Pearces Rd. Zebulon,
NC 27597 Sept. 2001, reports of
his mileage gain are public record in the archives of the Yahoo
discussion group Supercarbs, dated Labor Day weekend 2001 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercarbs/messages/5084 Yahoo.com has his phone number as 919-XXX-XXXX.
International
Clean Energy Consortium Holding AG Zug, Gewerbezone Morgarten, Postfach
227, CH-6314 Oberageri, Switzerland
October 2001, report of their mileage gains are recorded in a
letter (copy enclosed) and reported on our November 2001 newsletter page
at www.hydrogen-boost.com/november2001.html. The last phone number I had for them
is +41-XX-XXX-XXXX.
Dave
Pierce, 45304 Margate, Macomb, MI 48044-4173, October 2003 Installed his
system on his new H2 Hummer and called me just last month reporting that
the system is still running fine.
Yahoo.com has his number as listed
586-XXX-XXXX
Larry
Towbridge 415 N Elkhart Lot 45 POBox 127, Wakarusa, IN 46573 October 2003
has installed his system on two separate vehicles and has documented his
best mileage on our test results page at
www.hydrogen-boost.com/savings.html Yahoo.com has his phone number as
574-XXX-XXXX. The last email
address I had for him is larry63@direcway.com
Rishi
Giovanni Gatti 48Viale Della Milanese, 20097 San Donato Milanese, Italy,
April 2005 has documented his mileage results on our test results page at
www.hydrogen-boost.com/savings.html. He has had trouble with his subcompact
unit which I sent parts to rebuild and later replaced with a larger unit,
all for free. He is also a repeat
customer and speaks English
Phone number: 011+39 02 XXXXXXX
Mobile: 011+39 335 xxxxxxx
Jeff
McCabe 1131 Longshore Dr. San Jose, CA,
April 2005 bought just our plans and manual and constructed his
own system and has documented his mileage at www.hydrogen-boost.com/savings.html. The only McCabe I could find in San
Jose on www.anywho.com was E.B
McCabe at 408-xxx-xxxx.
Russell
Hebert, 9200 S. SAGINAW ST., GRAND BLANC, MI 48439, April 2006 has documented his initial
mileage gains at www.hydrogen-boost.com/savings.html. He has since improved on that and
become a dealer and purchased 5 more systems and is the process of
installing on customers vehicles.
Phone 810-xxx-xxxx.
Alfred
KLAAR, Mitterbergstrasse 3c, AT-2500 Baden, Austria, January 2006
purchase two systems for testing and even hired me to go to Austria to
install them for testing by a University. Alfred had plans to distribute to all of Europe until he
got laid up with hip replacements.
He may still decide later to go into business with us. His mileage gains on a gasoline
powered vehicle and a diesel vehicle are documented at
www.hydrogen-boost.com/January
2006.html. Phone + FAX : 0043
xxxx xxxxx.
Milton Archolecas,3260 NW 23rd Ave,Suite
1100E,Pompano Beach, Fl 33069,
May 2005 purchased the vehicle that achieved 100 mpg in the 2005
Tour de Sol mileage competition and is now preparing a factory to
manufacture and market the system throughout the US. He has since purchased two more
systems for testing and demonstration in conjunction with his business
plans. Miltons Work number is
954-xxx-xxxx.
Eoin
Giller Mohawk Trail, Clifton Park, NY, September 2005 had a partial
system installed on his Oldmobile Aurora. His testimonial can be viewed at www.hydrogen-boost.com if you
click on the link above the picture of the Formula One car on the right
side of the page. Eoin’s number
is 518-221-6691 or 518-221-1972.
Robert
E Hybertson, 211West Simpson St, Lafayette, CO 80026, April 2006 purchased a gasoline
vehicle system and decided to install the Hydrogen generator alone onto
his diesel truck. After a week or
so, he is reported to have averaged 19.1 mpg on the vehicle he carefully
tested at 16 mpg previously. As
soon as I get written documentation of these results from Robert I will
be publishing them in our next newsletter probably at
www.hydrogen-boost.com/June
2006.html
Our
list of returns is as follows:
Joel
Schreiber, Springfield, Missouri
2001 Returned,too
big
Eduardo
Cortina, 3834 Legation St. Washington, DC 20015 5-16 sent 4-15-02
Refunded
Al
Warren 100 5th Fondu Lac, WI 54935 for diesel tractor
trailer, delivered 3-24-03
refunded
Sal
Frausto 12045 E. Cooperopolis Rd, Stockton, CA 95215, May 8, 04 fuel heater,
wiring kit,H2refund
Vladimir
Gatchenko 13434Jamestown St Waverly, NE 68462 complete system 9-9-05 refund
Kiril
Palazov Asta Bulgaria LTD,Sava Toshev 4,Sevlievo 5400, Bulgaria
Complete12-29-05 refund
Milton
Hobbs 5 Loaves & 2 Fish, Inc 25 Lake royal, Louisburg, NC 27549
Diesel treat 3-11-06 refunded H2
Fernando
Cabral,10340 Fairchild Rd, Spring Hill, FL 34608 Basic system,
fuel heater 3-15-06 ethanol
refund
William
Ayres, 8713 36th Ave. E, Palmetto, FL 34221 941-722-7377 Complete 4-12-06 refunded
Joseph
Kmiec, 315 Cutts Courts, Edmonton, Alberta T6V 1M7, Canada
complete 4-20-06 refunded
Paul
Rainey, 7540 S. Kearney Road, Whitmore Lake, MI 48189 complete
w/o scan 4-29-06 refunded
Substantiation
of our claims of increased mileage is well documented in our many
newsletters pages on our web site, where we explain the procedure of the
scientifically controlled experiments and report the raw data and
conclusions. We have even
reported the test result on our dynamometer in our newsletter.
I have
a patent pending on our Hydrogen Boost technology. We have successfully registered
Hydrogen-Boost as our registered trademark with the US Patent and
Trademark Office. And Hydrogen Boost
is honored to be listed in the top 25 of the TOP 100 Technologies by the
New Energy Congress of which I am a member. You can see the listing at http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Congress:Top_100_Technologies_--_RD.
While I
am in touch with you, let me ask you a question. I have had a couple prospective
customers ask me if our company is a member of the Better Business
Bureau. I was unaware that the
BBB was a membership organization.
Is there such a thing as being a member of the BBB? If so, what do I do to become a
member?
Glad to hear from you,
Fran Giroux
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I also filled out a BBB Business Profile
form and sent it all in. I will
update you on our status with the BBB.
On 7-17-2006 I received this email.
Dear Mr. Giroux:
I am unable to define exactly what substantiation is
required. The Board is looking for the “science” behind your
claims. Perhaps a copy of the actual studies by the independent
testing centers would be helpful, describing the tests done as well as
what standards were used and the credentials of those conducting the
tests.
According to the BBB Code of Advertising, which is located
at http://www.bbb.org/membership/codeofad.asp#theright
1.
1. Superlative
Claims-Puffery
Superlative statements, like other advertising claims, are objective
(factual) or subjective (puffery):
o
o objective claims relate to
tangible qualities and performance values of a product or service which
can be measured against accepted standards or tests. As statements of
fact, such claims can be proved or disproved and the advertiser should
possess substantiation.
Sincerely,
Kathleen B. Winter
716-881-5222 ext. 277
kwinter@upstatenybbb.org
I answered with this response within:
Dear Mr. Giroux:
I am unable to
define exactly what substantiation is required. The Board is
looking for the “science” behind your claims.
Documentation
of the science behind the claims is documented by many researchers
throughout recent history. See our web page at
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/hydrogeninjection.html
Perhaps a
copy of the actual studies by the independent testing centers would be helpful,
describing the tests done as well as what standards were used and the
credentials of those conducting the tests.
"Perhaps" is not enough to justify
any expense is chasing after something that is not defined. I
could spend thousands of dollars getting testing done and still not
know what those guys/gals want from me. I need a defined
requirement before I can justify expenditures for testing. Please
have them define what is required for substantiation of claims before
membership can be obtained.
According to the
BBB Code of Advertising, which is located at
http://www.bbb.org/membership/codeofad.asp#theright
2.
1. Superlative
Claims-Puffery
Superlative statements, like other advertising claims, are objective
(factual) or subjective (puffery):
o o objective claims relate to
tangible qualities and performance values of a product or service which
can be measured against accepted standards or tests. As statements of
fact, such claims can be proved or disproved and the advertiser should
possess substantiation.
I make no superlative claims-puffery on my
web site. In fact the only claims made on our web site is that we have
achieved certain achievements with our equipment. It is a simple
reporting of facts, not a claim that a customer will achieve such and
such with our system. Our Guarantee is for satisfaction
regardless of mileage gain achievements. If a customer achieves
great gains in mileage and doesn't like putting water in the hydrogen
generator, then he can return it within 30 days for a refund, and a few
have done so, very few that have actually installed the system.
We do not make puffery--subjective claims,
like "You'll be happier or safer, or more popular if you use our
system." We only claim that we have achieved certain levels
of achievements, repeatedly. They are objective, quantitative,
tested, and documented achievements by organizations and
individuals over a five year period and over two continents. The
science behind our technology is well documented by others and
ourselves by road test, dynamometer, and emissions analysis
equipment. Now if "the committee" will not accept what
we have already produced for substantiaton, direct them to define the
requirements. I have applied for membership and again
respectfully request membership or I deserve defined requirements
and/or reasons for not being offered membership.
Still requesting membership,
Fran Giroux
On 7-18-2006 I received this email.
Mr.
Giroux:
In
response to your email to Kathleen Winter, the board wants proof of the
claims you make about your specific product. You claim consumers who
use your product will increase their gas mileage up to 50%. Someone
currently getting 50 MPG will get 75 MPG.
Prove
it.
They
currently are not convinced by the very limited information on your
website that your claims are real.
Testing
of the sort done by the Department of Energy alternative fuels projects
should do it. Or any other outside objective, scientific testing of
your specific product.
The
ball is in your court, and I hope you are able to substantiate the
advertising.
Sincerely,
David
Polino
President
Better
Business Bureau, Inc.
On 7-18-2006 I responded with this:
David Polino,
Thank you for your intervention in my
application process. Let's see if we can get this done to
everyone's satisfaction. I assume you and your committee find my
business practices exemplary but still have questions concerning our
product and its effectiveness. Let us address that.
Here is the quote of the "claim"
on our web site:
With the complete
Hydrogen Boost system we have achieved typical increase in mileage of
15-25% on the vehicles we have tested, without the use of driving tips,
and well over 50% with the implementation of the driving tips in our
manual.
First of all I would like you to read all
the documentation I have already sent to Kathleen, copies of which are
attached.
50% increase in
mileage has been more than proven in North Carolina
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/supercarbs/messages/5084 , Switzerland
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/Letter%20of%20acknowledgment%20ICEC.htm
and
www.hydrogen-boost.com/november2001.html, and at the Tour de
Sol mileage competition in Saratoga http://www.bestrateofclimb.com/montecarlo-results.htm. If you want personal proof and are
willing to document it with television news cameras, I will drive my
car out to your office and we can let you drive the car in a city
driving route for however many miles you want with the Hydrogen Boost
system shut off, and then ride with me while we drive the same route
with me driving and the Hydrogen Boost system turned on, and you can
let the TV news cameras document the results. In fact if you read the article about the Tour de Sol
mileage competition in the Saratogian on May 14, 2005 you will see that
the newspaper reporter was riding in my car during the competition http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/June%202005.html.
If you want
documentation of the 15-25% mileage gains without the implementation of
our driving tips, you can watch the video at http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/Demo2.wmv
or we can do the same televised documentation as I proposed above.
As with Kathleen I
cannot accept a statement like "should do it" or
"perhaps" as defining your required substantiation of my so
called "claim."
Before I can justify spending money of further testing I must
have a contract with you that clearly defines the testing required to
gain membership in your BBB.
Now let me address
your misquoting of our "claim." You stated in the email below "You claim consumers
who use your product will increase their gas mileage up to
50%." That is not our
claim. I do not predict the
future. I only report on
facts. Our web site reports on
the achievements that we have accomplished in scientifically controlled
mileage tests. There are some
quotes from customers on one page, http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/savings.html,
that we have documentation for, but these are not our claims, they are
reports of achievements by our customers.
As a BBB I would think you guys
would be more interested in the business practices of a company than in
the extent of documentation of the effectiveness of a product. I'm sure you don't put a Pharmacy
through the turmoil you have put me through because they sell some
drugs that are obvious to me to be snake oil. I'm sure you don't put Real Estate brokers through the
same hoops you require of me in proving that the houses they sell are
actually inhabitable. And I am
sure you don't require of your Auto repair shops that they prove that
all their parts are "Genuine GM parts." But you do require that your members
follow business practices that serve and protect their customers from
fraud and deceit. I believe I
have furnished you with ample proof of the high standard of our
business practices. We have a
published and clearly defined money back guarantee on our product and
we have refunded all that have returned their product, even though they
were usually not ever installed, and once from Bulgaria when the
product was destroyed before we got it back. Now I would like to reiterate my application for
membership and ask you to clearly define what is required of me.
Still ready to prove,
Fran
The
next correspondence I got from BBB was the following letter by snail
mail:
Dear
Mr. Giroux:
Your
recent correspondence was shared with the Ethics & Standards Committee
at their recent meeting. The US
Environmental Protection Agency conducts a program to evaluate devices
such as your gas enhancement system.
The committee considers the EPA Motor Vehicle Aftermarket
Retrofit Device Evaluation Program to be independent testing.
Feel
free to contact me if you have any questions. I can be reached at 716-881-5222 ext 277 or kwinter@upstatenybbb.org .
Sincerely,
Kathleen
B. Winter
Office Manager
The EPA like most “independent testing”
agencies, will not test the complete Hydrogen Boost system as a
complete system. Like others
they will want to evaluate the hydrogen generator alone or the fuel
heater alone. They would not
even allow the electronic control circuit because they would consider
that “interfering with the emission control system of the vehicle”
because it leans out the fuel ratio.
They would want separate tests for the engine treatment and they
would not even consider testing our recommended tire pressure because
they already know that works.
Without assurance that the EPA would test the complete system
together, like we do in our demonstration procedure, we have no
interest in their testing of our components. As I have said before Hydrogen Boost is a complete system
and is intended to be used together as a system, not as individual
components. So I guess BBB
membership is not something we can expect to achieve.
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