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Beware of hydrogen innovations llc

Makers of the HydroGen 1000 and HydroGen 2000

 

          Larry Trowbridge, who has been a Hydrogen Boost customer for over two years and decided to try a product from another company.  Following is a report from Larry about his experience.

 

My Experience With Hydrogen Innovations

             by Larry Trowbridge

 

Back in July I purchased a hydrogen generator from Hydrogen Innovations ( http://burnh2O.com ) for the purpose of testing their guaranteed 15% mileage boost claim. I would like to say that the experience was frustrating at best. I will say that the product arrived  relatively quickly and was in good shape. When the unit arrived, there were no instructions included. Nor were there any papers included stating the money back guarantee if the increase in mileage was less than the advertised 15%. When I called the company to ask about receiving instructions, I was told they would be sent later. They did however tell me on the phone what I needed to know about installing the unit. I can’t remember if I asked when I called about the instructions or at a later time, but when I asked about getting the mileage guarantee in writing they seemed somewhat evasive and stated that they weren’t out to cheat anyone. I never did get the written guarantee. This was when things seemed to take a turn for the worse. This all took place in August.

          Then, in September, we started producing FEMA trailers at work for the hurricane Katrina relief effort and I could see that I would no longer have the time to install and test the unit due to the overtime we were working. I tried to contact Hydrogen Innovations by phone when I got home from work and received no answer. There wasn’t even an answering machine. I wanted to ask them about getting a refund since I no longer had the time to work on the project. I sent numerous emails and never got any response. In fact, now that I think of it, I never got any response to any of the emails I sent them. I would strongly recommend that anyone considering purchase of a unit from Hydrogen Innovations to proceed with extreme caution. I realize that they were under no obligation to offer a refund but even if I had gotten the unit installed I would have found it difficult if not impossible to get technical advice or a refund if the unit had not performed as advertised.

Larry Trowbridge

 

Following are copies of emails sent by Larry to Hydrogen Innovations

 

Hi Paul,

I was wondering if you could send some information on your refund policy. I don't want to sound skeptical before I even start testing the unit, but with my past experience with things not working, I would just feel better with the refund policy information. Thanks for your understanding.

Larry TrowbridgeFrom: "LARRY TROWBRIDGE" <larry631@verizon.net>
To: <parnett@burnh2o.com>
Subject: Hydrogen generator
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 22:50:32 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01C5A5D9.922212C0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180

 

PS: I will probably be calling Monday or Tuesday to get information on how to use the electrolyte solution.

 

    Hi Paul,

I need to know the procedure for verifying the mileage increase from the unit. Thanks.

Larry Trowbridge

From: "LARRY TROWBRIDGE" <larry631@verizon.net>
To: <parnett@burnh2o.com>
Subject: Hydrogen unit
Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 16:47:44 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0086_01C5A994.B7059EE0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180

 

    Hi Paul,

When I purchased your unit I had a place in mind to install it. The space was the right dimensions but, when I went to install the unit, there wasn't enough room to maneuver it into the spot. Brent suggested I relocate my battery to the trunk. I purchased a battery relocation kit to do that. Since then I have been working overtime and haven't had time to install everything. We are producing temporary housing units for FEMA to be sent to the victims of Katrina. Would you consider granting me a refund if I return the unit? I would of course absorb the shipping costs. I would appreciate a quick response as the money was borrowed from a friend. Thanks.

Larry Trowbridge

From: "LARRY TROWBRIDGE" <larry631@verizon.net>
To: <parnett@burnh2o.com>
Subject: Hydro-Gen return?
Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 17:46:20 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
 boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006F_01C5C842.5CDE5AC0"
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180
X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180

 

This last email was repeated on October 6, 10, 13, 15, 22, 31.

 

Fran’s Comments

 

          I recently visited the web site http://burnh2O.com to see if the obvious misinformation that I pointed out to the company a number of months ago had been corrected.  It has not.  I will explain later.

 

          First I must say that if has been my experience, and that of most companies and customers of on-board electrolyzers, that the addition of electrolyzer gases alone into an internal combustion engine  does not cause any major increases in mileage on any vehicle, diesel or gasoline fueled. 

 

I have had some of my customers challenge certain companies about their 8%, 10%, and 15% mileage gain “guarantees.” 

 

One company said that the customer doesn’t really purchase the unit but enters into an equipment lease.  The installation fee was something like $700 and the equipment lease cost $150 per month.  My customer asked the company president what would happen if the device failed to produce the 10% increase in mileage on his tractor-trailer.  The response was that after three months of repeated failure, the customer would be released from the equipment lease.  The customer asked if he would be refunded the $700 installation fee and the $450 rent on the equipment, and the company president said that he could not do that because…..but he guaranteed the unit would produce 10% increase.  Well what kind of guarantee is it when a customer is not refunded the money he wasted to try someone’s guaranteed equipment?

 

Another company, who sold a unit to one of my prospective customers, sold their unit to this customer for something like $12,000.  They have replaced it twice and still the customer has achieved no mileage gains.  According to that customer the company has a six month policy, you have to try for six months before a refund can be given.  I told that customer to start making his demands for a refund long before the six month is expired and document the demand in a number of ways, email, certified mail, recorded phone calls, etc.  I suspect that whatever jurisdiction that company is in, has some case law that establishes a six month limit that is such, that if no refund is demanded before six month, then the customer must be satisfied with the equipment and should not get a refund.  The company is in Canada and I am not familiar with their case law.

 

Of course none of this has anything to do with .  We will now discuss the misinformation on the web site www.burnh2o.com because that is what I can point to at the moment.  I called hydrogen innovations llc directly a few months ago to discuss their equipment and the misinformation.  We discussed a few claims listed on their web site.  Later I was told that if I wanted to purchase a unit for testing to prove the claims were wrong, I would have to sign a non-compete agreement.  That was not likely because I had been in the same business longer than they have. 

I told the company rep. about the inability of electrolyzer gases alone to produce great mileage gains and he argued that a vehicle or two had achieved more than 10% in mileage.  I asked what the condition of the testing were and he had no answer for me.  I do want to note here that anytime I report test results on our web site, I give a full report of the details of the test procedures and the raw data, followed by conclusions.  This is common scientific method of reporting test results.  Anything short of this is suspect of inaccuracy and inconclusiveness.  Let me give you an example of lousy reporting of test results. 

 

On another competitor’s web site, one who has plagiarized my test results and web site address (without the dash), a “test” is described as follows:

""Ok Gentlemen;

I have completed the installation of the Candlestick H2 Booster on my 1996 Subaru Outback (2.2 liter).  I took a road trip totaling 777 miles. I ran the whole trip with the AC on and got the following results from the 3 tanks of fuel I used:

 

Tank 1 - 26.43 mpg

Tank 2 - 25.75 mpg

Tank 3 - 28.39 mpg

Average MPG = 26.85

 

Previous mileage average for the month of June (AC on) = 21.05 mpg

Previous mileage average for the month of July (AC on) = 22.53 mpg

 

So, this appears to have increased my mileage by about 21.59% over June and 16.09% over July for an overall average increase of 18.84%. Not too bad for a $118.00 investment. ROI @ $1.45/gallon = 431 gals. So after I use 431 gallons it'll pay for itself. I use an average of 60 gallons/month so in 7.17 months I'll have paid for the unit. You could also say that at $1.45/gal. this unit saves me $0.2732/gal., not too bad!""

I will say that at least this testimonial doesn’t hide the truth, it just doesn’t recognize the truth.  In the last paragraph the author says, “this appears to have increased my mileage…”  Well that’s at least not a lie.  He is only reporting what he see.  Of course what I see in this “experiment” is not an increase in mileage caused by the Candlestick H2 Booster, but an increase in mileage caused by a change in driving conditions.  It is clear in his explanation that his better mileage was achieved when he “took a trip totaling 777 miles” and the mileage he was comparing it to was his average mileage over the past two months.  Highway mileage of almost every vehicle sold is always higher than the city mileage and the average mileage.  In fact an 18.84% better highway mileage versus average mileage is rather lackluster.  My stock Saturn has EPA city mileage of 29 mpg and Highway mileage of 40 mpg.  That’s a 38% improvement of highway over city mileage.  So what does all this prove?  Well, it shows that this web site at least didn’t lie, but the conclusions of the author of the testimonial were not very valuable.  If this was a report of “test results” of a scientific experiment, the author would either be lying or an idiot. 

 

The biggest problem I have with the site quoted above is their false statement made shortly after the above quote.  They say, “Check out the documented results from a similar system that sells for $500.00 from some of those systems in use.”   Then they go on to cut and paste from my copyrighted web page, the following:

Vehicle                    Mileage                Improvement

Geo Metro                75.0 mpg hwy.               50%
Dodge Dakota          22.5 mpg hwy.                50%

Nissan Pathfinder     28 mpg hwy.                  56%
Plymouth Neon        55.1 mpg hwy.                57%

Hyundai Excel         52 mpg hwy.                   58%
Saab 9000 Turbo     44 mpg hwy.                   60%
Dodge Ram             28 mpg ave.                    75%
Cadillac Seville        30 mpg city                    77%
Honda Accord         46 mpg ave.                    80%
Hyundai Excel         45 mpg city                     80%
Plymouth Neon       58.8 mpg city                  103%

Saab 9000 Turbo     40 mpg city                     168%

 

        The falsity of the statement is the claim that their device is a “similar system” to our comprehensive Hydrogen Boost system.  The candlestick device they are advertising produces about a bottle cap full of gases per minute and our hydrogen generator produce the whole bottle full per minute, and our hydrogen generator is only a small part of our system.  I would hardly call that similar.

 

 

 

Back to  .  What’s wrong with their claims?  First of all I have already mentioned that great mileage gains are not likely to come from the addition of electrolyzer gases alone.  That is why Hydrogen Boost is not a device, it is a system of numerous components, including a hydrogen generator, fuel heater, vaporizing system, electronic controls, engine treatment, higher tire pressure, and driving and maintenance tips.

 

Their FAQ page makes the following statements:

 

The system will process approximately 1 gallon of water every 1,500 to 2,000 miles.

After the unit warms up, it will draw an average of 25 to 30 amps during normal operation.

When the HydroGen units are operating at optimum levels, the units produce approximately 1 liter of hydrogen and oxygen every 4 seconds.

 

Let me comment on these statements.  First of all any electrolyzer, even at 100% efficiency, running at 25-30 amps, can only produce about 2.6 liters of gases per minute, not 15 liters per minute as claimed by the statement above (1 liter of hydrogen and oxygen every 4 seconds).  It is established scientific fact that normal electrolysis requires so much electrical power, and faster gas production would be over-unity or free energy.  If they had a unit producing free energy they would not be selling it as a fuel enhancer.

Secondly as claimed above their system will process approximately one gallon of water every 1500 to 2000 miles.  I want you to know that one gallon of water will produce 1800 gallons or about 6550 liters of gases.  So what?  Well, if you are going to produce that gas at 1 liter every 4 seconds as stated above, then you’ll take only 437 minutes or 7.3 hours to do it.  And if you are going to travel 1500 to 2000 miles while using that 1 gallon, as stated above, then you have to be driving 205 to 274 miles per hour.

If the first statement quoted from their web site above is true, one gallon of water per 1500-2000 miles, and I think this one is fairly accurate, then the gas production of their unit is closer to close to 2 liters per minute (assuming 40 mph and 2000 miles).  This would be consistent with a normal electrolyzer working at 25-30 amps as they claim theirs does.  So what does it say about honesty when a unit produces 2 liters of gases per minute while the company is claiming 15 liters per minute (actually from my phone conversation with the company a few months ago their claim was 15-25 liters per minute, even after I rebuked them for their misinformation)?  It is strange to me that they would still be claiming the absurd 15 liters per minute (I liter every 4 seconds) after being corrected and informed of the absurdity of the claim.  You would think they wouldn’t want to be known of as fools.  I guess they think their customers are fools.

If the general result of adding electrolyzer gases to an internal combustion engine throughout the industry, has consistently caused modest increases in mileage (5-10%), and a company is claiming that their electrolyzer alone can cause great increases in mileage (20-40%), what does that tell you? 

And if a company guarantees 15% increase in mileage and refuses to spell out the conditions of their “money back guarantee,” and they treat people like they did Larry Trowbridge, do you want to do business with you.

 

Here is our Guarantee:

         
Our Hydrogen-Boost System package is 100% satisfaction guaranteed. If you are not satisfied with the performance of the Hydrogen-Boost System, you may return it undamaged within 30 days for a full refund.  Unfortunately some optional accessories like engine treatment and wiring kit will be damaged upon installation and therefore non-returnable unless they are unused, uninstalled, or undamaged, and in the original package.

 

Notice that we do not require any record keeping of mileage or any time limit before requesting a refund.  We only have a time limit for how long you can have our system before you ask for a refund.  It doesn’t even matter if you had great increases in mileage.  If you don’t like the system because you don’t want to pour water into it, notify us within 30 days and send it back.  We do not want unsatisfied customers.  We have given two refunds, both to customers who never installed the system, one who ordered too large a unit, and the other who had unexpected financial needs.

 

          With the above newsletter written and unpublished I sent the following email to parnett@burnh2o.com, chief of Hydrogen Innovations LLC.

----- Original Message -----

To: Hydro-Gen

Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 3:04 PM

Subject: Poor service

Please read the unpublished newsletter at http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/December%202005.html which will be published next week unless you take steps to rectify the situation with Larry Trowbridge.  I'm sure you have his email address since he has emailed you so many times.  If not I can forward it to you.

 Protecting the industry,

 Fran Giroux

I received a return receipt indicating that the email had indeed been received, but I received no answer directly from Paul Arnett.  Larry however received the following:

 

Larry,

Sorry for the delay in responding to you.  We have been involved in some
very time consuming deals that have required us to travel outside of the
state.

We are willing to refund your money, less a 20% restocking fee.  Once we
receive the unit in good working order, we will refund the money to you
within 30 days.

Sincerely,

Paul Arnett

_____ 

from: LARRY TROWBRIDGE [mailto:larry631@verizon.net]
Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 4:46 PM
To: parnett@burnh2o.com
Subject: Hydro-Gen return?

Hi Paul,

When I purchased your unit I had a place in mind to install it. The space
was the right dimensions but, when I went to install the unit, there wasn't
enough room to maneuver it into the spot. Brent suggested I relocate my
battery to the trunk. I purchased a battery relocation kit to do that. Since
then I have been working overtime and haven't had time to install
everything. We are producing temporary housing units for FEMA to be sent to
the victims of Katrina. Would you consider granting me a refund if I return
the unit? I would of course absorb the shipping costs. I would appreciate a
quick response as the money was borrowed from a friend. Thanks.

Larry Trowbridge

Larry’s response follows:

----- Original Message -----

To: parnett@burnh20.com

Cc: Fran Giroux

Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 11:28 AM

Subject: Hydro-Gen refund

 

Dear Paul,

 

    I find it doubtful that your long overdue email came only because you finally found time after your busy schedule.  I expect that your email was in response to the one you got from Fran.  I got a carbon copy myself.  I also expect that your 20% restocking fee would still make you a profit on your plastic toy hydrogen generator.  There can't be more than about $10 worth of material in the main black box.  Since I was totally fed up with being ignored by your company, I asked Fran if there was anything I could do about it.  He graciously reimbursed me for the cost of the unit.  Now only a full refund will make it up to me, and I'm sure Fran would expect nothing less.  Since I have forwarded the unit to Fran, he has even more invested in it than I did.  I think a full refund to me would settle the matter and Fran would ship it directly back to you, assuming I received all the pieces I should have.  I received no list of parts so I can't confirm that I received a full kit.
    I would think that Fran would expect full refund plus three shipping charges to settle the matter (one to me, one to him, and one back to you).  He is receiving a carbon copy of this email.  You can settle with me for a full refund or you can settle with Fran.  I'm sure you have his email address.

Respectfully,

Larry Trowbridge

It has been over a week without response form Hydrogen Innovations so as promised, I have here published this newsletter, as a warning to you and others.

 

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